Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

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radionortheast
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Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by radionortheast » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:11 am

:lol: may of gone under the radar they’ve switched off, would be interesting to find out what happens to the old frequencies, guessing if it was just left it would be heaven for dxers http://skywavesdx.org/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... way#p14560

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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by MiXiN » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:01 pm

Very sad news this.

I wonder how long it'll be until the UK is destined for this?

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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by NTR » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:20 pm

I think it won't be long to be honest. Most new cars come with DAB as standard and I think it won't be long before there are no FM radios fitted, plus I think they will phase out the sale of FM radios and also phase out dual DAB and FM. Not sure what they will do with the frequency? Possibly sell it off for mobile phone use? However, there will still be loads of FM radios out there - so I think it will be alive for a good few years and may become a golden era for pirates after the legal stations have left FM for good. Maybe we will start our own DAB MUX up - some bloke in Brighton got low power DAB to work from his shed - hardware is still quite expensive though.

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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by Dennis99 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:02 pm


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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by Albert H » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:51 pm

NTR - DAB is as cheap as FM these days. My test multiplex here uses eight Raspberry Pi SBCs with added soundcards for the MP2 coding and a knackered old Dell Latitude laptop for the bouquet generation. The exciter is a Hack RF One https://greatscottgadgets.com/hackrf/ and the PA is my own (though the Dutch job looks pretty nifty!) The software is quite simple these days and the good stuff is open-source http://www.opendigitalradio.org/2017/01 ... 0-released which I contribute to.

FM won't die out in the UK for the foreseeable future - there's too much plant and the outcry from listeners would make the protests over the "Archers" not appearing on Long Wave during Cricket Test Matches seem mild by comparison.

DAB+ is certainly superior to Band II VHF is many respects except that the signal isn't as robust, and any hint of multipath distortion results in the nasty "bubbling mud" sound effects! This is why DAB is poor in cars - the higher priced car receivers use "diversity" reception to try to overcome the limitations of the system - and so it's unlikely to ever take off until the problems are properly solved.

Back in the late 70s and early 80s, there was an enhancement to ordinary Band II FM stereo tried out in the USA. It was called FMX, http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US4674122 and was designed to maintain compatibility with mono and ordinary stereo receivers, but FMX decoder-equipped receivers would get even better results. An additional (heavily compressed) pair of difference sidebands were added in phase quadrature to the normal "S" component. The decoder would then use this to "fill-in" the bits of the stereo signal that were being corrupted by multipath or nodal field-strength variations (the "picket-fencing" effect, where the radio goes "chuff-chuff-chuff" as you go through signal nodes and anti-nodes). The improvement was remarkable. I worked on a couple of stations that used it, and we used to heavily advertise the receivers for the "improved" FM stereo that we were providing. It really worked well.

Of course it was a proprietary system, and some stations wouldn't pay the licence fees to add it to their signals, so FMX largely died out by the late 80s. It was sad, because it worked so well, didn't add to the broadcast bandwidth and remained compatible with existing gear.

The Yanks have gone for a really stupid digital radio system - it's called IBOC (In-Band-On-Channel) which adds digital sub-carriers to an ordinary FM stereo signal. It increases the bandwidth of the transmission significantly (causing severe interference to adjacent stations) and it audibly degrades the ordinary analogue stereo signal - it's the worst of all worlds - but the FCC idiots backed it (large brown envelopes probably had a lot to do with it).

What may kill off FM broadcasting (and DAB, come to that) is when wi-fi becomes cheaply available everywhere or when the MNOs (Mobile Network Operators) stop ripping off users for conveyance of data. There are a couple of (almost) unlimited data options now, but the mobile phone coverage is flaky over 95% of the UK (they don't have any real incentive to get it right) that it's still not really suitable for broadcast use. We need a government who is truly serious about improving things in this country and they need to threaten to rescind the MNO's licences unless they achieve acceptable coverage and start sharing their facilities properly. "Mobius" provide a SIM that will connect to any network that it can hear, but the MNOs insist on charging for individual connections, so you end up paying a hell of a premium price for a service that only just about works....

:x
Is it meant to smoke like that? :shock:

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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by NTR » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:56 am

Thanks for the great Info Albert.

I thought the SDR was the expensive bit - looks like things have changed. I would like to try my hand at DAB at some point, always found it interesting.

Recently, I had a brand new courtesy car with DAB+ receiver in it and it seemed pretty good, but I never had the car long enough to give it a proper and full test! It must of had a decent receiver with "diversity reception" as it was very useable, with no nasty or annoying bubbling (which I hate.)

I am a little surprised that Norway have switched off FM, and hope the government here don't see it as a success and try it here. Who knows what they will do? I think as long as FM radios are still being sold then FM will still thrive, but I have the feeling ( this maybe just be me talking shit ) that the government is keen to switch off FM here - due to what I hear in the media from time to time, but how realistic in practice that is, is questionable?

Totally agree with the mobile phone thing. When the masses started using mobiles, I always thought that Network operators were having a laugh by charging for text messages! the cost is ridicules and I don't ever think that mobile data will be cheap because far too much money is made out of it and as you say the Government don't and wont step in. I love the fact that I can tune in to my stream on my mobile anywhere, but I pay a fortune for my data, plus there is currently only one choice of carrier if you want totally unlimited data and even with this there are still restrictions.

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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by radionortheast » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:01 pm

yup the government always go throught with stuff even if you don't like it! I have a feeling they'll press for switch off eventually, fm may just become abit like am now, the death of it will be when they stop making car radios with fm tuners in them, guess they'll be no point transmitting then!

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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by drumandbasshead010 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:35 pm

Over here in Ireland, we have DAB in the capital (Dublin), Cork and Limerick. Ireland has only got one DAB multiplex, meaning the same stations are available in all 3 counties. The car on the drive is a 2016 Verso, was listening to DAB+ in it the other weekend in Dublin and no bubbling sounds whatsoever, no static or even any low hissing while the station was playing, when the signal faded the station just came to an abrupt stop and "no signal" appeared on the display. The station would be heard where it could, and not be heard where it couldn't. No in-between half-hiss like there is on FM when you're gradually losing signal, it was either on or off. DAB is a pretty decent system in my opinion.
I don't think personally that FM will die out over here anytime soon, FM is still by far the most popular medium of listening to radio here. It's not as though Ireland can hope to have a band full of pirates if the licensed stations were to cease broadcasting, there are max 16-18 pirates in the country at the minute and plenty of space on the band (in most places.) But I do believe that the government would be likely to give pirates a DAB license as the capassity of DAB is much bigger than FM.

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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by Dennis99 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:18 pm

Interesting vid about small scale dab. :whistle


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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by NTR » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:36 pm

Interesting

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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by radionortheast » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:35 pm

drumandbasshead010 wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:35 pm
Over here in Ireland, we have DAB in the capital (Dublin), Cork and Limerick. Ireland has only got one DAB multiplex, meaning the same stations are available in all 3 counties. The car on the drive is a 2016 Verso, was listening to DAB+ in it the other weekend in Dublin and no bubbling sounds whatsoever, no static or even any low hissing while the station was playing, when the signal faded the station just came to an abrupt stop and "no signal" appeared on the display. The station would be heard where it could, and not be heard where it couldn't. No in-between half-hiss like there is on FM when you're gradually losing signal, it was either on or off. DAB is a pretty decent system in my opinion.
I don't think personally that FM will die out over here anytime soon, FM is still by far the most popular medium of listening to radio here. It's not as though Ireland can hope to have a band full of pirates if the licensed stations were to cease broadcasting, there are max 16-18 pirates in the country at the minute and plenty of space on the band (in most places.) But I do believe that the government would be likely to give pirates a DAB license as the capassity of DAB is much bigger than FM.
I have fond memories of the fm band back in the 90’s listening to one of M’s stations from ireland over here, how cool it used to be been 20 years old listening to it, but you can’t turn back the clock, even if they turn off half the stuff, problaly won’t see any pirates we had then, no super pirates i don’t think, don’t think they’ll be a return, plus the music can be pretty crap today!

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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by drumandbasshead010 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:01 pm

radionortheast wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:35 pm
drumandbasshead010 wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:35 pm
Over here in Ireland, we have DAB in the capital (Dublin), Cork and Limerick. Ireland has only got one DAB multiplex, meaning the same stations are available in all 3 counties. The car on the drive is a 2016 Verso, was listening to DAB+ in it the other weekend in Dublin and no bubbling sounds whatsoever, no static or even any low hissing while the station was playing, when the signal faded the station just came to an abrupt stop and "no signal" appeared on the display. The station would be heard where it could, and not be heard where it couldn't. No in-between half-hiss like there is on FM when you're gradually losing signal, it was either on or off. DAB is a pretty decent system in my opinion.
I don't think personally that FM will die out over here anytime soon, FM is still by far the most popular medium of listening to radio here. It's not as though Ireland can hope to have a band full of pirates if the licensed stations were to cease broadcasting, there are max 16-18 pirates in the country at the minute and plenty of space on the band (in most places.) But I do believe that the government would be likely to give pirates a DAB license as the capassity of DAB is much bigger than FM.
I have fond memories of the fm band back in the 90’s listening to one of M’s stations from ireland over here, how cool it used to be been 20 years old listening to it, but you can’t turn back the clock, even if they turn off half the stuff, problaly won’t see any pirates we had then, no super pirates i don’t think, don’t think they’ll be a return, plus the music can be pretty crap today!
So true, there'll never be another Kiss FM, or even Pulse 103.2.

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Re: Norway switch off fm and noone notices!

Post by Steambod » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:39 pm

I do a lot of driving in mid Wales and FM there sucks! DAB? Forget it!! Most of the time just crank up the MP3 and leave it on - with 64GB I can listen for a few months and never hear the same track twice! Most mobiles have fm rx built in but most kids I know just listen to MP3s on their phones.

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