FM Stereo - Crosby System

Everything technical about radio can be discussed here, whether it's transmitting or receiving. Guides, charts, diagrams, etc. are all welcome.
Post Reply
silverspring
ne guy
ne guy
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:06 pm

FM Stereo - Crosby System

Post by silverspring » Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:48 pm

Hi All, anyone ever made an alternative FM Stereo system just for fun? I was thinking about making up a TX and RX for the Crosby system but decided just to be lazy and do it in GNU Radio instead. Quick and dirty flowgraph mock-ups below show the TX and RX. The TX is a Hack RF and the RX is an RTLSDR dongle. The TX has additional virtual sinks which are shown in the flowgraph but were just used for testing and since removed.

For anyone who isn't aware, the Crosby system was one of the mux stereo systems put forward as a proposal. It came runner-up to the GE/Zenith system that we all know and love. The Crosby system puts the L-R difference on a 50KHz subcarrier which is frequency modulated as opposed to the GE/Zenith 38KHz DSBSC. Deviation has to be restricted with Crosby hence why it won't sound as loud. I haven't done any real testing of this but it sounds great on air (I mean into a dummy load :D )

Image

Image

Albert H
proppa neck!
proppa neck!
Posts: 2780
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:23 am

Re: FM Stereo - Crosby System

Post by Albert H » Sat Apr 27, 2024 8:18 pm

The Crosby System had issues with mono compatibility - many of the domestic receivers back in those days had IF bandwidths that were exceptionally wide (which is partly why the BBC VHF services were so widely spaced in frequency), and their selectivity was poor. There were also issues with maintaining the phase of the difference subcarrier, which could lead to a less than stellar stereo imaging. Also, it required larger channel bandwidths.

The Zenith GE system was a reasonable compromise. It wasn't ideal, but could be made to work pretty well with quite minimal circuitry. My very first home-brewed stereo coder had just four transistors in the whole thing, and gave a reasonable account of itself. My subsequent designs improved vastly on this early, crude approach, and later on, I designed stereo coders for a couple of major manufacturers.

My favourite coder - ever - was one based on the 1496 double-balanced modulator IC. I used the sinx² identity to generate the 38 kHz subcarrier from a very stable 19 kHz sinewave source, and then used another 1496 as the modulator for the "side" (difference) signal. The summing and differencing was done with op-amps, and I included several stages of Bessel filtering (and 19 kHz notches) to roll off the audio frequency response at 15 kHz. With really careful alignment, I could get >56 dB channel separation, and very low distortion. There was an output filter to ensure that no spurious products from the mixing process could leak out, but when correctly aligned, I couldn't measure any spurii at all.

The only (minor) downsides of the design were the very critical alignment for best results, the expense of the parts (there were a lot of them!), and the less than perfect noise performance - the signals fed to the double-balanced modulators had to be at pretty low levels to prevent distortion artefacts, and quite a lot of gain was required afterwards to get the composite multiplex signal up to sufficient levels to feed to the transmitters of the day. The process of attenuation and re-amplification tended to add noise. I was largely happy with the quality of the coder, but there was always a nagging feeling that I couple have done the double-balanced modulators differently (without using the manufacturer's really accurately trimmed parts), though any other solution would require even more alignment!

My old pal Trevor Brook published a somewhat simplified version of the circuit in Wireless World (which he'd developed separately - he'd tried a similar approach to mine), and his company (Surrey Electronics) made his version of the coder for a few years in the '70s and '80s.
Other manufacturers made similar designs too.

The later switching coders were less than ideal, but some of the results from them could be amazing. The NRG Pro III coder and the Pro IV coder (my design) gave great results for quite minimal outlay.
"Why is my rig humming?"
"Because it doesn't know the words!"
;)

User avatar
yellowbeard
tower block dreamin
tower block dreamin
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:40 am

Re: FM Stereo - Crosby System

Post by yellowbeard » Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:13 am

I read that wireless world recently enough during the covid and I been scouring around trying to refind it. Sucess! :tup
https://radiofax.org/lsim/FM%20Stereo%2 ... 0World.pdf

silverspring
ne guy
ne guy
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: FM Stereo - Crosby System

Post by silverspring » Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:34 am

All interesting stuff.

I've built many stereo coders over the years, just haven't dabbled with alternative systems. Although I still prefer actual hardware over SDR implementations, GNU Radio and the like is really useful in being able to knock up quick ideas about something. The Crosby system is very easy to realise in GNU Radio with no obstacles. I haven't done any real tests, but on-air it sounds great with great stereo separation. Here is an interesting paper describing the various proposals from back in the day with reasoning/musings of the advantages and disadvantages of each: https://durenberger.com/wp-content/uplo ... STEREO.pdf

Another interesting system was the Russian/Eastern Europe OIRT polar stereo system. I haven't mocked up a GNU flowgraph but have tested this in StereoTool as it's able to put out a composite signal representing this scheme into an FM transmitter and received with Gqrx that has this as a decoding option.

Albert H
proppa neck!
proppa neck!
Posts: 2780
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:23 am

Re: FM Stereo - Crosby System

Post by Albert H » Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:09 am

The "polar" system is an interesting solution, and I remember building a decoder for it, as the Russian Gorizont satellites broadcast using it. It didn't give perfect results, but it was acceptable.

As that WDAC paper explains, there were several systems proposed. It makes for interesting reading.

The only real enhancement to the basic Zenith GE system was in the early 80s, with the (all too brief) introduction of the CBS FMX system. This approach added a further, highly compressed subcarrier "S" signal in quadrature with the existing 38 kHz subcarrier. It maintained compatibility with normal stereo (and mono) and gave great results on receivers that were fitted with the FMX decoder. It eliminated "picket-fencing" effects when the receiver was mobile, and improved the "S" subcarrier signal-to-noise ratio. The overall result was a useful reduction in S/N "penalty" (normally about 23dB) for stereo.

The enhancement was well worthwhile, but the take-up by receiver manufacturers was far too slow. One station I worked on in California used it for a while, and the listeners who bought suitable receivers gave it glowing reports! It has no noticeable effect on the "ordinary" stereo signal, so listeners without the enhanced decoders weren't inconvenienced, and mono reception remained just the same.

The Bose company gave a rather biased (and mathematically flawed) review of the FMX system in 1989, complaining that it could cause degradation of both the mono signal and normal stereo signal under multipath conditions. This was complete nonsense, and was just Amar Bose (and Bill Short) trying to gain a financial advantage by selling their incompatible noise reduction system for FM (that didn't actually work!).

It was disappointing that FMX faded away - it really was a significant improvement!
"Why is my rig humming?"
"Because it doesn't know the words!"
;)

User avatar
rigmo
tower block dreamin
tower block dreamin
Posts: 464
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:35 pm

Re: FM Stereo - Crosby System

Post by rigmo » Thu May 02, 2024 11:18 pm

AlbertH you are the real benchmark for FM, and I don't understand why you are not perceived as the greatest of all on globe....

Albert H
proppa neck!
proppa neck!
Posts: 2780
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:23 am

Re: FM Stereo - Crosby System

Post by Albert H » Fri May 03, 2024 12:28 am

Hardly - there are other engineers (I can name a few of them) who leave me standing for technical knowledge and ability. I'm just fortunate to have lad a long career in electronics, mostly in the broadcast sector. I've designed many commercial products for broadcasting, audio, telecommunications, and even some automotive products, but the most fun has been finding ways of building the most cost-effective, reliable and capable clandestine broadcasting gear!

I'm officially retired, but can't give it up!
"Why is my rig humming?"
"Because it doesn't know the words!"
;)

Post Reply