Re: The VXO
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:53 pm
For the price of an obscure crystal you could get yourself a whole tube of TSA5511s! It's a no-brainer, to me at least. 

Yes it's defiantly been interesting and it would appear the VXO is no-ones "Ockham's razor" on here. I think the areas that have been highlighted the most would be frequency agility, then followed by modulation for FM mode, and then finally ordering crystals.
Before there was CMOS logic chips available, that must have been the only way to do it without drifting all over the shop! That's proper old school though. The first PLLs using CMOS chips must have been in the 70s?Zozo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:16 pmYes it's defiantly been interesting and it would appear the VXO is no-ones "Ockham's razor" on here. I think the areas that have been highlighted the most would be frequency agility, then followed by modulation for FM mode, and then finally ordering crystals.
I'm not in favor of a VXO for FM mode these days, but it did have it's place for a while in some applications before synthesizer IC's came about.
I guess your right about the CMOS logic that was possibly used in Broadcast Spec Equipment, However I've not had much exposure to that kind of tech from that era to be completely honest. The transmitting equipment from the 1970's that I've either seen, used or owned was all crystal controlled oscillators for either AM/ FM or SSB modes, and not used in broadcasting.Bton-FM wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:36 pmBefore there was CMOS logic chips available, that must have been the only way to do it without drifting all over the shop! That's proper old school though. The first PLLs using CMOS chips must have been in the 70s?Zozo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:16 pmYes it's defiantly been interesting and it would appear the VXO is no-ones "Ockham's razor" on here. I think the areas that have been highlighted the most would be frequency agility, then followed by modulation for FM mode, and then finally ordering crystals.
I'm not in favor of a VXO for FM mode these days, but it did have it's place for a while in some applications before synthesizer IC's came about.
That said, the synthesizer IC's most builders are using are from the 80s - 90s! The SAA1057 is circa 1983! We are still using very old tech.
There are three gigantic problems with a VXO - the need for a specific crystal (quite expensive and "unusual" frequencies engender unwanted interest), and very poor modulation linearity. With a VXO you're "pulling" the crystal off its natural frequency. The deviation from the centre frequency is simply NOT linear. Back when a Big Broadcasting Concern used VXO VHF rigs, they had to use "pre-distortion" networks to correct for the non-linearity, which didn't work particularly well. The third problem (related to the second) is that the available deviation is limited.Zozo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:47 am
Another point which makes me favor VXO's is there's less components needed, No synthesizer IC or supporting controller. You can even put the code writing to one side. One of the only down sides to the VXO was ordering Crystals, But now you can order one very cheaply and they get cheaper as you increase you order quantity.(Established pirates long term investment maybe).
I agree fully with that statement as its perfectly expectable for say the 2m band with the limitations in deviation. But wide enough for an intelligible transmission.
I be interested to see an example schematic of the diode doubler. I may try to do something like this for a Homebrew 2m TX.
Here's where I first saw it - not FM but same shit and same frequencies. http://ludens.cl/Electron/converter/converter.html
Thanks Jvok for the link, I've only had a quick glance and noticed what looks like a Diode Ring. I'll take another look in the morning as my brain is in natural at this time of night "H.I."jvok wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:30 pmHere's where I first saw it - not FM but same shit and same frequencies. http://ludens.cl/Electron/converter/converter.html
Doubler is L1/D1/D2. It's basically your classic two diode rectifier circuit but fed with RF instead of 50Hz. Needs fast diodes obviously - he used expensive HP2800s but cheap RF schottkys like 1N5711 works fine. Worst part about it imo is that you need the transformer to get the two phase input, but if you wind your own well magnet wire and cores are cheap. I used T50-6 powdered iron because I had it in stock but at a guess type 67 ferrite would work too.
That schematic also has another transformer at the output but you don't need it. Loading it with a resistor to ground then coupling the output with a cap works just fine.
IMO it works better than using a transistor as a doubler. Less 1/2f feedthrough. But be warned for best results you need a good clean sine wave. Anything asymetrical in your input will cause 1/2f.
I'm working on a rig based on this at the moment. If I get it to work then I'll post the circuit.
On the plus side it would mean I could deploy thesinus trouble wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:22 pm![]()
You could just spam the Forum?...... But you will most likely get Banned!![]()
Bton-FM wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:24 amOn the plus side it would mean I could deploy thesinus trouble wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:22 pm![]()
You could just spam the Forum?...... But you will most likely get Banned!![]()
smiley for once!
![]()
Thanks krakatoa for the link which I found very interesting. I like the simplicity of the design. Also I think we share something in common as you say you like vintage RF circuits too. I'm defiantly living in the past being a Medium Wave pirate fanatic, in fact any band where AM Mode is permitted. I also prefer valve designs, solid state is great and it's not like I avoid it. But it's just not the same with things that glow.Krakatoa wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:08 pm I like vintage RF circuits, but to not take advantage of today's technology is like living in the past.
To make a very simple vxo and frequency multiplier all in one chip that you can even use as a narrowband FM spy microphone, there is the ICS501, capable of generating up to 160MHz from a standard quartz, using the available multiplying factors it has in its internal PLL.
Given that the output is digital (square wave) is rich in harmonics and you can choose to filter the fundamental or continue multiplying with external circuits up to the UHF range.
Here is an example in a russian blog:
https://vrtp.ru/index.php?showtopic=27258&st=30