I understand your need for a "secret" aerial. I suggested (somewhere up-thread) a "Co-Co" antenna. That's a "Coaxial Colinear", and is usually just presents as looking like a flagpole: The coaxial sections are housed inside a fibreglass or plastic pipe - it looks nothing like a dipole! Both Jaybeam and Bandtex made Co-Co aerials, and they'll construct them for any frequency of your choice. The Jaybeam one I had (used on Church Road, Crystal Palace in the 80s) was tuned for ~88 MHz (it was used on 88.6MHz) because I told them it was to be used for a Taxi base station!

You'll find it instructive to investigate these aerials in the ARRL Antenna Book. They suggest using them for repeater aerials.

sinus trouble wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:13 am Personally, I would use a dipole with a rear reflector element directed towards the Urban areas and away from the mountainous ground!

You have not also read what I have previously said/posted

Albert H wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:46 am I understand your need for a "secret" aerial. I suggested (somewhere up-thread) a "Co-Co" antenna. That's a "Coaxial Colinear", and is usually just presents as looking like a flagpole: The coaxial sections are housed inside a fibreglass or plastic pipe - it looks nothing like a dipole! Both Jaybeam and Bandtex made Co-Co aerials, and they'll construct them for any frequency of your choice. The Jaybeam one I had (used on Church Road, Crystal Palace in the 80s) was tuned for ~88 MHz (it was used on 88.6MHz) because I told them it was to be used for a Taxi base station!

You'll find it instructive to investigate these aerials in the ARRL Antenna Book. They suggest using them for repeater aerials.

Like I said/posted before, if I can just order one of these antennas pre-tuned ready to install I am interested, if not forget it.

BriansBrain wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:06 pm

sinus trouble wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:13 am Personally, I would use a dipole with a rear reflector element directed towards the Urban areas and away from the mountainous ground!

You have not also read what I have previously said/posted

I have read and understood all your comments!

You do not want to spend any money (Or as little as possible)

You are reluctant to build or tune anything, you just want the best efficiency with little effort!

You love your Dominator antenna!

Also opinions from other users seem to be irritating you!

BriansBrain wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:11 pm

Albert H wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:46 am I understand your need for a "secret" aerial. I suggested (somewhere up-thread) a "Co-Co" antenna. That's a "Coaxial Colinear", and is usually just presents as looking like a flagpole: The coaxial sections are housed inside a fibreglass or plastic pipe - it looks nothing like a dipole! Both Jaybeam and Bandtex made Co-Co aerials, and they'll construct them for any frequency of your choice. The Jaybeam one I had (used on Church Road, Crystal Palace in the 80s) was tuned for ~88 MHz (it was used on 88.6MHz) because I told them it was to be used for a Taxi base station!

You'll find it instructive to investigate these aerials in the ARRL Antenna Book. They suggest using them for repeater aerials.

Like I said/posted before, if I can just order one of these antennas pre-tuned ready to install I am interested, if not forget it.

It seems that you are the one not paying attention to advice!

Pre tuned antennas DO NOT exist!!!!

You may get close or lucky? ALL antenna need to be installed and adjusted for optimal performance!

If you are looking for efficiency? there are no shortcuts mate!

The pre-built Co-Co aerials I've used in the past all had matching tweaks of one sort or another. They had to be installed in their final location, coupled to a small test transmitter, and the match tweaked for minimum reflected power. The beautifully built Jaybeam aerials could be matched to really close to 1 : 1 SWR.

"Brian's Brain": In the Real World™, you always have to adjust aerials to optimise them. You really can't throw up something like your "Dominator" and expect a good match immediately. Unless you're incredibly lucky, the match on your existing aerial could almost certainly be improved, possibly by a significant amount!

Albert H wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:21 am The pre-built Co-Co aerials I've used in the past all had matching tweaks of one sort or another. They had to be installed in their final location, coupled to a small test transmitter, and the match tweaked for minimum reflected power. The beautifully built Jaybeam aerials could be matched to really close to 1 : 1 SWR.

"Brian's Brain": In the Real World™, you always have to adjust aerials to optimise them. You really can't throw up something like your "Dominator" and expect a good match immediately. Unless you're incredibly lucky, the match on your existing aerial could almost certainly be improved, possibly by a significant amount!

sometimes you can spend a good part of the day to get it in order.. the whole

sinus trouble wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:39 pm You do not want to spend any money (Or as little as possible)

I don't mind spending money on something that will be efficient.
My current PA rack consumes 315W for an output of 150W = to 48% efficiency.

This is what it costs me to run @ the current extortionate electric rate...
315W x 16.5hrs day = 5.2kW per day x 365 = 1898 kWh
1898 kWh x €0.27 = €512 per year -48% = €266 waste per year.
I have had the same setup now for nearly 4 years now = €1064 wasted money
I would of preferred to put that into something that would be more efficient.

sinus trouble wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:39 pm You are reluctant to build or tune anything, you just want the best efficiency with little effort!

NO, I am not reluctant to build or tune as long as I can make it as efficient as something I can buy.
For example if I spend +/- €1000 for parts and some extra test gear to make one and it only
ends up at 59% efficient I have wasted my time and money.
Example...
At an output of 600W
An Elenos Indium consumption = 810W = 13.36kw/day @ 74% Efficiency
Old ETG consumption = 1010W = 16.66kw/d @ 59% Efficiency
Difference = 3.30kw a day
3.30kWh x €0.27 = €0.89 Euros per Day x 365 = €324 a year difference
In four years that would be a total of €1296 wasted money.
If I can find a good one a second hand 1kW Elenos goes for +/- €2000

sinus trouble wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:39 pm You love your Dominator antenna!

1. I had a dipole before, I was told by some of the locals to take it down as it looked out of place in the comity
if not they would report me to the local authorities because I didn't have planning permission for it.
They asked me what it was for, I told them I was a radioaficionado (ham radio) and needed it for that.
I showed them pictures of a Dominator and said they would accept that, but only on a pole, not a lattice tower.

2. Many times in we have incredibly high night time winds with gusts up to 100mph, one episode 2 years ago
it took my large heavy gas BBQ (including a full gas bottle) and threw it 40m along the terrace, it still just about
works but it's a twisted wreck.
Luckily I had just replaced the Dipole with the Dominator which survived, the Dipole would have not.

3. After I put up the Dominator we went out with my laptop and my P275 FM Broadcast Analyzer.
All around Brian's coverage area I measured +/- 3dB increase in signal in most areas.

That's why.

Albert H wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:21 am "Brian's Brain": In the Real World™, you always have to adjust aerials to optimise them. You really can't throw up something like your "Dominator" and expect a good match immediately. Unless you're incredibly lucky, the match on your existing aerial could almost certainly be improved, possibly by a significant amount!

I got the Dominator from the USA pre-tuned to 96.8
I checked it to the frequency measurements in the instructions and it was spot on.
I get SWR 1:1 > 1:2 it varies with temperature, wind gusts and it goes up in heavy rain.
Base of the Antenna is 3m above the first guy wires, 5.2m above the breeze blocks and 9.3m above the roof..
The Dipole I had before was tuned a well as I could get it.
I went out with my laptop and my P275 FM Broadcast Analyzer after I installed the Dominator
I measured a +/- 3dB increase in most of Brian's reception areas.
So, it was giving me what the manufactures claim.

How could it be improved possibly by a significant amount ?

BriansBrain wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:21 pm I got the Dominator from the USA pre-tuned to 96.8
I checked it to the frequency measurements in the instructions and it was spot on.
I get SWR 1:1 > 1:2 it varies with temperature, wind gusts and it goes up in heavy rain.

EDIT That's 1.1:1 > 1.2:1 SWR

Either you're very lucky, or your meter needs recalibration!

After four hours of tweaking, testing, tweaking yet again and testing some more, I've just got our local "community" station's SWR down from 1.77 : 1 to 1.05 : 1! There's no measurable increase in field strength, but their rig now runs virtually cold, instead of getting alarmingly close to its thermal shutdown temperature.

Their rig is a "Siel" effort that they got from Italy, and it never sounded particularly good on the air. I found that someone had set the mod feed level about 6dB too high, so that the audio processor in the rig was constantly in limiting, with clipping on peaks. After turning down the mod level, so that it reads right on the rig's "multi-function meter display", it sounded pretty good. Now we've just got to persuade them to play some programmes that aren't aimed at educationally sub-normal 10 year-olds......

Because I love you my brain. You really made me laugh with these calculations, if we are going to look at it like that, my friend, it means that our whole life is just a big piece of shit, only secrets come out of us.. what are we actually doing that is useful? the only thing that is one hundred percent certain is the destruction of the planet, ie ourselves... let's get back to the topic. I repeat. every amplifier can be well adjusted to pass the threshold of 80%, now the most common results are 80-84%... it's better to invest, as Albert says, in an antenna socket than an amplifier that will throw your money away... if some money for the drive doesn't waste time... In the area where I lived, there used to be heavy industry, including the army, which used a huge amount of electricity... and today it's gone and they're talking about saving electricity... they're switching to DAB! what scoundrels! they are lying to us!!! they are amplified with less efficiency because they cover the whole band and the factory DOES NOT tune for your frequency.. someone like albert or me who has been playing with it recently can do that! because it's unburnt for them to waste their time on you... here's your device, give us money!

Well I guess one thing we cannot change is the extortionate energy prices!

That cleared up!

The antenna looks kosha from an outsiders point of view? Plus with neighbours that won't allow any sort of antenna array alternative to increase gain!

You are left with very little choice? "Build or Buy"

To be realistic? a PRO TX will push your budget! If you have the cash? Do that and be done!

Assuming your main exciter is adequate? A decent 300 watt amplifier would give you a massive boost and cost a fraction of the price! (As a compromise)

Infact, some users on here could build you a complete high quality rig cheaper than any commercial product out there!

WHOA!!!!

Is that right?? 7000 EURO for the Elenos ETG1000???

sinus trouble wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:26 am In fact, some users on here could build you a complete high quality rig cheaper than any commercial product out there!

TRUE ! I take off my hat.

7000e is business,,, seller give for distributor min 25% i understood that part to... because we need t live... and is a viable right now..
FoR LOW budget we need time and deal

few month before i test 350W and get with fine tune 81% efficiency before I brake my PSU i push more then 400w.. i order new PSU 1000W :

Albert H wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:57 pm Either you're very lucky, or your meter needs recalibration!

I have three Power SWR meters they all give me the same +/- result

BriansBrain wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:58 am I have three Power SWR meters they all give me the same +/- result

is installed like this one on left side?

rigmo wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:41 pm Because I love you my brain. You really made me laugh with these calculations, if we are going to look at it like that, my friend, it means that our whole life is just a big piece of shit, only secrets come out of us.. what are we actually doing that is useful? the only thing that is one hundred percent certain is the destruction of the planet, ie ourselves.

I have to do these calculations and get them right
Because if I get it wrong I can't afford to live never mind pay the electric bill.

I am a 71 year old retired English man living in Spain with no income other than my small basic pension from the UK.
Unless you would like to make a donation to ''Radio Brian'' that's my economic situation.

rigmo wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:41 pm I repeat. every amplifier can be well adjusted to pass the threshold of 80%, now the most common results are 80-84%.

OK, if the pallet can be made to go up to 80% or over then might go for one
BUT could I adjusted it myself ?
I'm now old with rheumatoid arthritis and very bad eye site, precise fiddly stuff now is very difficult
for me accomplish correctly.
If I spent some of my savings on something I could not get write I would just end up with an
expensive piece of gear that I could not afford to use.

However...
If I could purchase the pallet at the right price complete with the FET mounted on the copper tuned to 80% efficiency or over
at 96.8 MHz then we are talking.

rigmo wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:41 pm it's better to invest, as Albert says, in an antenna socket than an amplifier that will throw your money away...

I will agree, if I could put a massive lattice mast up on my roof with 8 Dipoles on it I would.
BUT as previously mentioned, I can't.

sinus trouble wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:26 am You are left with very little choice? "Build or Buy"
To be realistic? a PRO TX will push your budget! If you have the cash? Do that and be done!

Like I said before the efficiency is everything.
I am looking at what it will cost over 4 years.

sinus trouble wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:26 am Assuming your main exciter is adequate? A decent 300 watt amplifier would give you a massive boost and cost a fraction of the price! (As a compromise)

My exciter is a Tugicom TX180 1W
Main problem I have come across is most pallets require 3 > 4W input + the poor efficiency

sinus trouble wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:26 am Infact, some users on here could build you a complete high quality rig cheaper than any commercial product out there!

Yep, I don't doubt it... BUT with the same overall efficiency ?

The reason why I'm always on about the bloody efficiency is Brian is ON 16.5hrs a day 365 days a year.
Combined with our extortionate electricity cost... low efficiency = money down the drain.

rigmo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:26 pm is installed like this one on left side?

YES exactly like that picture

I was originally looking for a pole that could accommodate the Dominator into
mainly to keep the visual look as inconspicuous as possible
but I never found one.