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Wanted radio stream to broadcast in Cardiff between my shows
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2025 9:58 am
by henrythedog
Hi Pirates
I am looking for a station that wants to be broadcasted in the Cardiff Area on FM. I have made the transmitter and Dipole. Just working out what frquencies we will use. In Wales we have these big brown things called Mountains. They are great for Transmitters at 1000 Meters above sea level. I predict we can cover the whole of Cardiff on 15 Watts. Getting DJ's here that want to do Pirate is not easy so we are going to start with a couple of hours Friday night and then stream a London Station for the rest of the weekend. However it would be good if the station can cooperate so they know they will get shout outs from Cardiff and are transmitting there. Its got to be good for your station to advertise that you are broadcasting in England and Wales.
Looking at starting in 3 weeks time to allow for test transmittions.
Looking at the area in relation to the transmitter site we are going to be testing Yagi Beam, Horizontal Dipole and Vertical. I think the Vertical will waste 75% of the power going the wrong way. So will probably be a 3 element Yagi.
The uplink will be cellular so you will need an internet radio page.
Re: Wanted radio stream to broadcast in Cardiff between my shows
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2025 3:40 am
by Albert H
You might want to try stacked vertical "H" aerials - they give hemispherical radiation with useful forward gain, You'd obviously get more antenna gain from 3-element Yagis, but your radiation would be in a naarrower beam. However, this can be advantageous if you're a bit further away from your target audience area.
My old station in California used as many as four stacked 3-element Yagis from very high sites, pointing at downtown, which was about 7½ miles away at closest. Driving around the reception area, we'd be able to easily identify the predominent lobe of the radiation pattern, because the signal was much stronger there! However, all the area we were aiming to cover got a reasonably good signal, and we achieved quite good penetration between high buildings despite only using vertical polarisation. The high site(s) really helped! For the first few months we ran mono, but when I got some bigger TRW output transistors, stereo became possible. I got the power up to around 400 Watts from the rig, into an aerial array with useful gain, so we had an ERP of about 1600 Watts!
Back in the early 80s, we didn't have the luxury of mobile phones capable of carrying a reasonably good quality signal (or any mobile phones, for that matter), so we had to build our own link gear. In the early days, we used a couple of reel-to-reel tape players at the site, but that was inconvenient (and there was the risk of arrest, of course).
I used a crude microwave link from the studio to a nearby tall residential block, and then used two "hops" of a couple of Watts of UHF to get up to the site. All the UHF aerials were ordinary TV Yagis - they have spectacular forward gain, and don't ever look out of place!
Re: Wanted radio stream to broadcast in Cardiff between my shows
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2025 9:20 pm
by shuffy
Albert H wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 3:40 amYou might want to try stacked vertical "H" aerials - they give hemispherical radiation with useful forward gain, You'd obviously get more antenna gain from 3-element Yagis, but your radiation would be in a naarrower beam. However, this can be advantageous if you're a bit further away from your target audience area.
Sounds like he's already built a 3-ele Yagi. IIRC, there are 2 options from the edges of that TSA, the "H" stack would work better on one of them, and the beam would work better from the other. He'll know what they are!
Just to add to the discussion if people want (I usually get flamed for this one). I've done something very very similar using an HB9CV - no good for more than 100W if that, but you're probably going to need say 70-80W for solid coverage. Possibly slightly harder to construct than the Yagi (depending on the match) and a couple dB less forward gain, but much smaller boom length. Less metal and better F/B than both the Yagi and the "H". Forward pattern somewhere between the two.
Re: Wanted radio stream to broadcast in Cardiff between my shows
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2025 9:50 pm
by FMEnjoyer
When I read this I thought, hypothetically that can be done with 3 Watts on a favourable high hillside, using a directional antenna well matched on a clear frequency. It's about 7 miles across. You can do 20 miles with a dipole and 15W.
I would have thought 80W on the right site and freq should cover the entirety of South Wales with a dipole. Pop one on the old Senghenydd 350 Meters ASL and boom, hitting Bristol with a needle bender.
Re: Wanted radio stream to broadcast in Cardiff between my shows
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2025 11:34 pm
by shuffy
I love this topic for discussion because there are an absolute ton of factors in play plus subjective opinions. Endless fun!
FMEnjoyer wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 9:50 pmWhen I read this I thought, hypothetically that can be done with 3 Watts on a favourable high hillside, using a directional antenna well matched on a clear frequency. It's about 7 miles across. You can do 20 miles with a dipole and 15W.
Well, theoretically, you can do 20 miles with a dipole and 3W - any VHF signal at whatever power will go to the horizon, it's the relative field strength and how good your receiver is that determines whether or not it's usable. That's where the subjective element to this comes in. 55W into my HB9CV from a high site about 2 miles from the edge of a (ahem) well known northern town resulted in "reasonable" coverage over about half the conurbation, which coincidentally is about 7 miles. That's my subjective definition of "reasonable" - listenable but of course I wanted better. So I stand by my estimate!
FMEnjoyer wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 9:50 pmI would have thought 80W on the right site and freq should cover the entirety of South Wales with a dipole. Pop one on the old Senghenydd 350 Meters ASL and boom, hitting Bristol with a needle bender.
He's only trying to cover Cardiff though, so putting it up there would be bait - there are smaller hills closer to the town. Actually thinking about it, 50W or less into a dipole on a block in the centre of town would do the bizzo. I'm fascinated to hear the results from the tests
Re: Wanted radio stream to broadcast in Cardiff between my shows
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:30 am
by FMEnjoyer
I understand where you are coming from. Not everyone is a Tecsun Anorak
searching for another the bog standard garage and drum and bass signal. I like that appearing, but not for the 5,000ths time.
3W in the centre above roofs would cover the most of it. You are right there are many variables, I would try for for the low end of the band. Once a friend found out 80mw can be heard 1 mile away in a car.
Surely a rig anywhere is now bait? Even more so for a lazy thief in a town centre. Not many people would want to go on the moors and you not going to tell them where it is. Unless they fancy a ride to hospital in a helicopter with a broken leg and wrist. Much increased risk of being nabbed by police, caretaker or public urban, 1'000s of eyes. Just a load of hassle. Small power = small cost and easier to power from batteries.
Height above terrain is something underestimated. 350M is 4 x an average 20 storey block.
Of course more power is more strength, obvious. People underestimate what low power and a very well considered site frequency and install could hypothetically achieve. Also much less likely to cause interference, we are not born yesterday many 50-100W rigs are not going to be of the super spectrally clean type that many on here make those as yet totally untested boxes out to be. I bet 50pct are not great at all.
Get the wrong rig and unless you check that rig on an expensive analyzer you will be off in days by Ofcom. All you have is random geezer trust and let's face it trust is hard to come by these days even in normal life ! I would have though doubly so in the 'bigg boy' pirate world. That is why quality, as legit as possible rig acquisition would mean a lot, instead of dealing with people you don't know from Adam. So far I have never once seen a block rig on an verifiable analyzer video categorically proving spectral purity. And as if they have high QC and the next one off the bench is going to be top notch.
Why is that? Maybe it is because a super clean rig is only in imaginations. What you gonna get for £300.00 PLL Stereo 200W 100pct -65dB down spectral purity. That seems like a fantasy and remains so till I see a video where Albert comes along says I trust that is clean as a whistle !
I can look at this from the perspective of someone who is anti risk and not involve these days, never really was, just a brief hobby. It is more than just having a rig and sticking it on. We can see on here that there is a not very nice side of pirating, rig thiefs etc. as you mentioned almost immediately in your last post.
All depends, if the poster has a mains rig, then in the wilderness is already more difficult.
Re: Wanted radio stream to broadcast in Cardiff between my shows
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2025 12:56 pm
by shuffy
FMEnjoyer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:30 amI understand where you are coming from. Not everyone is a Tecsun Anorak
searching for another the bog standard garage and drum and bass signal. I like that appearing, but not for the 5,000ths time.
Exactly, for most listeners it's about the content. When I've got a station on, I'm not aiming at those people standing on the bed holding the TECSUN over their head with the aerial in just the right spot to maybe get 7dBu. You want 30dBu or more on the kitchen windowsill, same as Galaxy or Crapital or whatever it is. You know as well as I do that you won't get that these days with 15W into whatever antenna even from high up or relatively close by, as the relative field strength drops right away in these real-world scenarios.
Yes putting a rig on is always bait, not so much these days, but surely covering more than your TSA is just increasing the risk of thieves. Tricky balance, but there are ways of mitigating it and actually, that makes the hobby even more interesting and rewarding.
Re: Wanted radio stream to broadcast in Cardiff between my shows
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2025 10:14 pm
by FMEnjoyer
I can only speak for myself, it was only ever a bit of fun, these days it is barely even that. I tune about a bit but in all honesty I kind of end up longing for days gone by rather than be satisfied with what is one. I can only here a single pirate at the moment and I occasionally tune in to hear if they have raided, I choose my music online. Pirates used to make you feel a bit connected to something other than mainstream pop music. Underground dance music and golden oldies nostalgic pirate broadcasters used to be, but not anymore. Also the stations that pirated for anorak purposes and playign the music they liked, i heard few though, was a bit late for that, last ones were Veronica Q102 and RFM and those smaller stations playing their specialist rock music to small areas or making werid programs just for creative purposes.
There is simply nothing of interest in it anymore, Radionecks is the pirate thing now and it is online, says it all, the glory days are ancient history now.A few memories I suppose.
Re: Wanted radio stream to broadcast in Cardiff between my shows
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2025 7:19 pm
by henrythedog
Hi guys, back again after many hours of testing. Can you believe that after all the testing that 5/8 wave at 70 watts worked best on a van roof . We were so high that we didnt need the direction. 5/8 wave gave the gain and it gets out all over Cardiff and Bristol. 70 watts gave it the power to punch through and the 5/8 wave kept it at a lower angle. If you look at the map of cardiff and follow a road north it goes up and up and there is a hotel on the ledge. Height is everything.
Re: Wanted radio stream to broadcast in Cardiff between my shows
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2025 7:55 pm
by FMEnjoyer
That can totally be believed, well done for finding out
Re: Wanted radio stream to broadcast in Cardiff between my shows
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2025 8:29 pm
by henrythedog
FMEnjoyer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:30 am
I understand where you are coming from. Not everyone is a Tecsun Anorak
searching for another the bog standard garage and drum and bass signal. I like that appearing, but not for the 5,000ths time.
3W in the centre above roofs would cover the most of it. You are right there are many variables, I would try for for the low end of the band. Once a friend found out 80mw can be heard 1 mile away in a car.
Surely a rig anywhere is now bait? Even more so for a lazy thief in a town centre. Not many people would want to go on the moors and you not going to tell them where it is. Unless they fancy a ride to hospital in a helicopter with a broken leg and wrist. Much increased risk of being nabbed by police, caretaker or public urban, 1'000s of eyes. Just a load of hassle. Small power = small cost and easier to power from batteries.
Height above terrain is something underestimated. 350M is 4 x an average 20 storey block.
Of course more power is more strength, obvious. People underestimate what low power and a very well considered site frequency and install could hypothetically achieve. Also much less likely to cause interference, we are not born yesterday many 50-100W rigs are not going to be of the super spectrally clean type that many on here make those as yet totally untested boxes out to be. I bet 50pct are not great at all.
Get the wrong rig and unless you check that rig on an expensive analyzer you will be off in days by Ofcom. All you have is random geezer trust and let's face it trust is hard to come by these days even in normal life ! I would have though doubly so in the 'bigg boy' pirate world. That is why quality, as legit as possible rig acquisition would mean a lot, instead of dealing with people you don't know from Adam. So far I have never once seen a block rig on an verifiable analyzer video categorically proving spectral purity. And as if they have high QC and the next one off the bench is going to be top notch.
Why is that? Maybe it is because a super clean rig is only in imaginations. What you gonna get for £300.00 PLL Stereo 200W 100pct -65dB down spectral purity. That seems like a fantasy and remains so till I see a video where Albert comes along says I trust that is clean as a whistle !
I can look at this from the perspective of someone who is anti risk and not involve these days, never really was, just a brief hobby. It is more than just having a rig and sticking it on. We can see on here that there is a not very nice side of pirating, rig thiefs etc. as you mentioned almost immediately in your last post.
All depends, if the poster has a mains rig, then in the wilderness is already more difficult.
10 meters above ground will give you a 10db gain. 10db is like times the power by 10. Power helps you cut through the buildings at the end of your line of sight. height gives you distance. I can talk the world on 7mhz bounced on the inosphere with 25 watts.