pira tx fm

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radium98
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pira tx fm

Post by radium98 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:42 pm

Hi i need help from expertz please be specific i dont need to burn out the PIC IC.
here two pll from famous pira.cz
the 5w version use tsa5511 and PIC16F627A /628 and locks from 87.5 to 108
and the pll digital tuning apart from second pira project locks from 82.5 to 108.0 and use SAA1057 and pic16f84/628
question can i use the HEX file from the second project (saa1057+16f628) and swap use it with the first tx (TSA5511 + 16f628) so i can see on the screen 82.5 to 108
because the digital tuning dont have a lcd screen
Image
http://imgur.com/T4UaAox
http://imgur.com/9VN5HgK
http://imgur.com/7n74SH2

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Re: pira tx fm

Post by sinus trouble » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:43 pm

Hello Mr Radium :)
That circuit you have posted uses the PIC16F84 So the answer is no!
Also it uses DIP switches, not tune up/down buttons!
Why dont you use the HEX file that PIRA supplied for the 5watt version??
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by sinus trouble » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:07 pm

Just to add!
The SAA1057 operates different to the TSA5511!
The SAA1057 requires 2 data inputs plus the clock input! with the TSA5511 this is not the case!
However! You could use the TSA5511 PIC16F628 combo to control any VFO if designed correctly!
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by sinus trouble » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:33 pm

Another point you need to consider! LOL! :)
I have used both of these configurations and found the TSA LCD is best suited for a broadband VFO design (No tune) If you need a transmitter that is only operated at one frequency then the SAA is a good choice! If you are gonna be changing regular? then go for the TSA!
Im not saying the SAA is not capable? but you will need to re-write the ASM file to achieve this!
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by Albert H » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:06 am

sinus trouble wrote:I'm not saying the SAA is not capable? but you will need to re-write the ASM file to achieve this!
No. The original SAA1057 & 16F84 "Pira" version uses wire links or switches to select the frequency, using the same Hex file for the 16F84. The switches are programmed in binary, and subtract the number of 100 kHz steps that are set on the switches from 108MHz. For example - if you wanted 107MHz, you'd programme "10" in binary - 00001010 on the switches.

By the way - there's a small error on the original "Pira" PLL - the resistor from SAA1057 pin 1 to ground should be 1k (not 180Ω) to allow the mod to give enough deviation.
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by Albert H » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:15 am

Incidentally - I've used a variation of the "Pira" PLL for years. My firmware is different to his, and runs in a 16F628A (a much cheaper PIC), and I have a reasonably reliable "lock detect" output and a lower noise loop filter configuration.

Incidentally, it's worth driving the Vcc3 (pin 7) of the 1057 with 30V, to give a sensible mod sensitivity at the varicap - this reduces the possibility of RF feedback and hum. I use a spare output on the 16F628 to provide a 100kHz squarewave that's used to drive a simple voltage multiplier to get the 30V from the 12V board supply.

I use a zener regulator to stabilise and clean the 30V, and my VCO will tune anywhere in the band without adjusting the coil. There is a second varicap used to "scale" the deviation against selected frequency, so that the modulation sensitivity is the same anywhere on the band. The circuit is scaled so that 1.5V p-p = 75kHz deviation
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by radium98 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:31 am

Expertz thanks for all the technik reply.
still one question could be possible to any of you to re-write me the software of the 5 w version to lock from 82,5 to 108 .or to lock from 108 to 180 mhz or little more
thanks regards.

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Re: pira tx fm

Post by Albert H » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:29 pm

It's not trivial to re-write the code. There are a limited number of inputs and outputs on the PIC. The clever thing that Jan Kolar did when he wrote the code was to make full use of the I/O of the chip. He's used three outputs for the I²C bus to the SAA 1057 and another eight to read the states of the eight switches used to set the frequency.

There is also a limit to the frequencies available from the PLL IC (the 1057). If you try to programme a frequency above 120MHz, it's rejected, and if you try to go below 65MHz it rejects the input. The VHF side is designed to cover 76MHz - 108 MHz (to cover the lower band frequencies used in some parts of the world) and to allow the use of 10.7MHz above or below these frequencies (to allow for receiver IF - remember that this chip was designed for receivers).

If you want a more broadband solution, look at the SA 5511 - this will work from around 40 MHz up to about 1 GHz! The PIC code to drive this IC is quite different.

If you want specialist PIC control for PLL ICs, you're going to have to learn how to programme PICs yourself! The going rate for a PIC programming engineer is over £1100 per day (that's what I'd charge you), and it would be two or three days' work to write the code for a new IC and a new range of frequencies, design a PCB and build a prototype to make sure that it all worked as expected. I would imagine that £4000 is going to be outside your budget.....

PICs aren't too difficult to learn to programme - give it a go! The hardware required isn't too expensive, and once you've learned how to do it, you can do PIC projects for other people, and start earning serious money!
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by sinus trouble » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:28 pm

radium98 wrote:one question could be possible to any of you to re-write me the software of the 5 w version to lock from 82,5 to 108 .or to lock from 108 to 180 mhz or little more
thanks regards.
:lol:
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by sinus trouble » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:44 pm

Albert H wrote:If you want specialist PIC control for PLL ICs, you're going to have to learn how to programme PICs yourself! The going rate for a PIC programming engineer is over £1100 per day (that's what I'd charge you), and it would be two or three days' work to write the code for a new IC and a new range of frequencies, design a PCB and build a prototype to make sure that it all worked as expected. I would imagine that £4000 is going to be outside your budget.....
Yes Mr Radium, Unfortunately writing a program can be a very long and tedious task! Even if you manage to convert the assembly commands without flagging errors? it still may not perform as expected?

That means back to the drawing board! :cry:
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by Analyser » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:46 am

Has anyone got the .asm code for these projects, or is it just .hex that pira provide?

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Re: pira tx fm

Post by Analyser » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:06 am

I've just got off my lazy arse and seen that pira have provided assembler files for both projects.
For the SAA, tuning to 82.5 is not so easy, it looks like it was converted using a compliler so I can't understand what's going on.

For the TSA, unless I'm missing something its extremely simple. The author has provided start and stop frequencies at the begining of the programme. Just chage those to 82.5 and 180 if you like?

#DEFINE INIFRQ D'8250' ;initial frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE BOTFRQ D'8250' ;bottom frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE TOPFRQ D'18000' ;top frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE STEP D'10' ;tuning step [10*kHz]
#DEFINE PLLXTL D'640' ;PLL xtal frequency [10*kHz]
;Note: STEP should be an integral multiple of (PLLXTL/64)

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Re: pira tx fm

Post by sinus trouble » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:54 pm

Analyser wrote:For the SAA, tuning to 82.5 is not so easy
According to the DIP switch chart? it will tune to 82.5 although ive never tried?
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by sinus trouble » Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:03 am

Analyser wrote:For the TSA, unless I'm missing something its extremely simple. The author has provided start and stop frequencies at the begining of the programme. Just chage those to 82.5 and 180 if you like?

#DEFINE INIFRQ D'8250' ;initial frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE BOTFRQ D'8250' ;bottom frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE TOPFRQ D'18000' ;top frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE STEP D'10' ;tuning step [10*kHz]
#DEFINE PLLXTL D'640' ;PLL xtal frequency [10*kHz]
;Note: STEP should be an integral multiple of (PLLXTL/64)
Nice one Mr Analyser! :tup It does seem to be integral to the code and not just a header text? If you are correct? It should be possible to use for my band 1 VFO! :)
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by Albert H » Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:07 am

The SAA1057 with the Pira firmware should go down to 108MHz - (0.1 Mhz * 255) = 82.5 MHz, with all the switches "on".
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by Analyser » Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:47 am

sinus trouble wrote:
Analyser wrote:For the TSA, unless I'm missing something its extremely simple. The author has provided start and stop frequencies at the begining of the programme. Just chage those to 82.5 and 180 if you like?

#DEFINE INIFRQ D'8250' ;initial frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE BOTFRQ D'8250' ;bottom frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE TOPFRQ D'18000' ;top frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE STEP D'10' ;tuning step [10*kHz]
#DEFINE PLLXTL D'640' ;PLL xtal frequency [10*kHz]
;Note: STEP should be an integral multiple of (PLLXTL/64)
Nice one Mr Analyser! :tup It does seem to be integral to the code and not just a header text? If you are correct? It should be possible to use for my band 1 VFO! :)
Just be aware the TSA has a minimum input frequency of 64MHz (from the datasheet).

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Re: pira tx fm

Post by Albert H » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:14 am

You can use the 1057 for a Band I PLL - just change the crystal to 2MHz.... You can then programme 41.25MHz up to 54MHz in 50kHz steps.

Another approach is to have your Band I VCO run at half the output frequency, and use the "AM" side of the 1057 (which works up to 30MHz).

There are lots of ways to get this done - my preferred PLL for Band I (for transmitters and link receivers) uses three cheap 74HC CMOS ICs, a few diodes for programming, a cheap 4MHz crystal and a few passive components. The whole parts cost for this PLL is under £2, and doesn't require any PIC programming.

If you want this PLL to go higher in frequency than about 65 MHz (the upper speed limit of one of the ICs used, you can pre-scale with a 74F160 for a cheap ÷10 or an SAB6456 for a ÷64 or ÷256 up to 1GHz. You have to do a little bit of easy mathematics to find reference and output frequency division ratios, but it's not too tricky.
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Re: pira tx fm

Post by radium98 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:39 am

Analyser sorry for delay yes i am interrested if you provid me ure hard work hex for up yo 180 thanks a lot
Analyser wrote:
For the TSA, unless I'm missing something its extremely simple. The author has provided start and stop frequencies at the begining of the programme. Just chage those to 82.5 and 180 if you like?

#DEFINE INIFRQ D'8250' ;initial frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE BOTFRQ D'8250' ;bottom frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE TOPFRQ D'18000' ;top frequency [10*kHz]
#DEFINE STEP D'10' ;tuning step [10*kHz]
#DEFINE PLLXTL D'640' ;PLL xtal frequency [10*kHz]
;Note: STEP should be an integral multiple of (PLLXTL/64)

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Re: pira tx fm

Post by rigmo » Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:04 pm

Albert H wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:15 am Incidentally - I've used a variation of the "Pira" PLL for years. My firmware is different to his, and runs in a 16F628A (a much cheaper PIC), and I have a reasonably reliable "lock detect" output and a lower noise loop filter configuration.

Incidentally, it's worth driving the Vcc3 (pin 7) of the 1057 with 30V, to give a sensible mod sensitivity at the varicap - this reduces the possibility of RF feedback and hum. I use a spare output on the 16F628 to provide a 100kHz squarewave that's used to drive a simple voltage multiplier to get the 30V from the 12V board supply.

I use a zener regulator to stabilise and clean the 30V, and my VCO will tune anywhere in the band without adjusting the coil. There is a second varicap used to "scale" the deviation against selected frequency, so that the modulation sensitivity is the same anywhere on the band. The circuit is scaled so that 1.5V p-p = 75kHz deviation
Realy I wont to do it...

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